Masters of Uncertainty

Chapter 1: Intro 0:00The two most powerful words in the English language are I am. Because whatever you put after those two words shapes your behavior. I'm the boss. I'm in charge. Tell me what I need to do. 0:1111 secondsTrust is the boat while inspiration is the wind. If we don't have that boat, 0:1515 secondswe're sinking. And so we have to work on building that boat of trust. Inspiration might come and go, but trust has to be present, everpresent. 0:2222 seconds[Music] Chapter 2: Rich Diviney 0:2525 secondsWelcome to Lessons Learned. My guest today is Rich Deainy. Rich is a retired Navy Seal officer whose career spanned more than 20 years and included more 0:3333 secondsthan 13 overseas deployments, 11 of which were to Iraq and Afghanistan. As the officer in charge of training for an 0:4040 secondselite Navy Seal command, Rich spearheaded the creation of a directorate that fused physical, mental, 0:4646 secondsand emotional disciplines. Since his retirement, Rich founded The Attributes Incorporated, where he's worked as a speaker, facilitator, and consultant, 0:5454 secondsspeaking to and training more than 5,000 businesses, athletic, and military leaders. Rich's new book, Masters of 1:021 minute, 2 secondsUncertainty, looks at how we can use the techniques of elite special operators to turn stress and challenge into success. 1:101 minute, 10 secondsRich, thanks so much for joining me today on Lessons Learned. Hey, it's great to be here, John. Thanks for having me. Always good to see you. Um, so I think a lot of people are familiar, 1:181 minute, 18 secondsyou know, I hope by now the audience is familiar with the attributes and kind of your early work, but uh, you've written a new book called Masters of 1:261 minute, 26 secondsUncertainty. Tell me a little bit about the book. Yes. Uh, Masters of Uncertainty is really just a a somewhat of a culmination of what I've been 1:341 minute, 34 secondsobsessed about for years, and that is what is it that made spec operators and I guess specifically Navy Seals uh, do 1:421 minute, 42 secondswhat they did. And for me, it was never about the skydiving or the scuba diving or the or the shooting. It was about the fact that we were and are individuals 1:491 minute, 49 secondsand teams that can drop into deep complexity and chaos and begin to perform. And so I always defined us as masters of uncertainty. But what I recognized is that these tools, 1:581 minute, 58 secondstechniques, these these distinctions are in fact human. They're not just uh special operator centric. And so what I 2:062 minutes, 6 secondswanted to do is put it all together in a book to give everybody the chance to explore their own ability to become a master of uncertainty both individually and as teams. Yeah, I think it's an an Chapter 3: Elite Operators 2:152 minutes, 15 secondsinteresting topic for you to dig into because you know at the most elite units as you know the often what separates the most elite operators from from those 2:242 minutes, 24 secondsthat are not as elite is their ability to handle this kind of confusing complex everchanging multifaceted environment 2:322 minutes, 32 secondsand you know make sense of it and then figure out you know prioritize and figure out what's going on. So it's it's it's an interesting topic I think for 2:412 minutes, 41 secondsyou to pick up especially in light of of you know not only your career experience but the the time that you spent in trying to fuse these different you know 2:492 minutes, 49 secondsphysical emotional mental components together. Yeah and I agree and I and and again I think one one of the things we I realized and I recognize as we all do is 2:582 minutes, 58 secondsthat this is not uh it's not um exclusive to uh spec operators even at the most elite levels. But what the what 3:053 minutes, 5 secondsthese elite levels allow us to do certainly allowed me to do is see it in such in such detail and in such kind of 3:123 minutes, 12 secondsum uh visceralness that I began to say okay what's actually going on here but uh but again every single one of us as human beings has stepped through 3:213 minutes, 21 secondsuncertainty and challenge and stress in these ways the key is can we articulate it and therefore once articulate it can we practice it and repeat it and become 3:303 minutes, 30 secondsvery good at it. Yeah. And I mean, I think if you looked at elite athletes, 3:343 minutes, 34 secondsyou know, and probably, you know, if you you were to measure Tom Brady versus other quarterbacks, probably what one of the things that makes Tom Brady Tom Brady is his ability to look at an 3:443 minutes, 44 secondsevolving field and and take a quick shot of that and quickly figure out what to do. Um, I just think in, you know, elite 3:513 minutes, 51 secondsspecial operations units, the stakes are so high and so obvious. Yeah, they are. 3:573 minutes, 57 secondsI would just say athletics. While while I agree with the athletics analogy, I don't I don't I don't think it's the best environment inside of which to see 4:044 minutes, 4 secondsthis because athletics, although athletics uh uh have in inside of them some level of uncertainty. Athletics for 4:124 minutes, 12 secondsthe most part are fairly certain environments. However, depending on the sport, the uncertainty level rises. So, 4:194 minutes, 19 secondsso you take for example, I think any fighting sport, uh, the uncertainty level in that endeavor arises because you just don't know. Even though you can 4:284 minutes, 28 secondshave a plan of what the opponent's going to do, you don't know. You're constantly reacting and adapting to what the opponent's doing. I think sports like climbing or uh or in some cases some of 4:364 minutes, 36 secondsthat extreme stuff where the environment creates a level of uncertainty and so so yes, applicable in all domains um more 4:454 minutes, 45 secondsapplicable in certain domains. Certainly spec operator special operations your your your plan is to walk into an environment where you don't know what's 4:534 minutes, 53 secondsgoing to happen. You hope you know what's going to happen. You plan for certain things but ultimately you don't know and um and if you can't react 5:005 minutesproperly in that case the the uh the um the consequence could be um injury or death and that's a that's a serious serious situation. So yeah for sure. So, Chapter 4: How do we respond to uncertainty 5:115 minutes, 11 secondsso let's let's kind of walk through this a little bit because I want to kind of understand how how do we respond to uncertainty? Like what what is it that 5:205 minutes, 20 secondswe're doing when we're faced with an uncertain situation and what are the keys to us, you know, understanding it and reacting to it? Yeah. The uh it 5:285 minutes, 28 secondscomes down to our neurology really. um and uncertainty shows up in our system or or it's presented to us when when 5:365 minutes, 36 secondsthree neurological factors are not present or I'd say one of you know any one of the three but three at the at the extreme. So those three those three 5:445 minutes, 44 secondsfactors are duration i.e. how long this is going to last um pathway what's the route in or out and then outcome what's what's going to happen at the end. Now, 5:545 minutes, 54 secondswhen we are in an environment, our brains are trying to sus this out. And if we are in absence of one or more of those, uncertainty begins to ride or 6:036 minutes, 3 secondsexcuse me, rise. Um, if we're in absence of all of those, we have deep uncertainty um in our system. And that's when we really begin to get anxious and 6:126 minutes, 12 secondsour autonomic arousal goes up. So and so the idea is how do we as human beings uh take control of that neurological aspect 6:216 minutes, 21 secondsin terms of wanting to understand or know the duration the pathway outcome if in fact it's not immediately present to 6:276 minutes, 27 secondsus. So duration meaning how long the event is going to you know how long this is going to happen for pathway where I'm Chapter 5: Duration Pathway Outcome 6:366 minutes, 36 secondsgoing what my route is. Yeah. what what the what the route um is um either to out of it or or through it, right? You 6:446 minutes, 44 secondsknow, how do I get through this? Um and then and then outcome once I'm through, what's what's waiting for me at the end? 6:506 minutes, 50 secondsUm so uh so for example, if um if if uh if we get sick, uh if we have a if we 6:586 minutes, 58 secondshave a sickness or an illness, um we may not know exactly uh how long it's going to last. So we're absent um we're absent 7:077 minutes, 7 secondsduration. Um we do have a route maybe we have antibiotics or something. So we have we have a pathway um and we have an outcome because the antibiotics will 7:157 minutes, 15 secondswill eventually cure it. So we're an absence of only one duration. So our our our stress or our level of uncertainty is mild. If we have an illness where we 7:227 minutes, 22 secondshave it and there's no uh there's no published remedy for it um but we've heard that people get over it. Okay. 7:317 minutes, 31 secondsIt's not in other words it's not it's not fatal. then we are in absence of duration pathway and pathway but we know the outcome. So now our levels of 7:397 minutes, 39 secondsuncertainty are higher. Um if we have an illness that uh no one's really ever heard of, there's no uh known cure or 7:487 minutes, 48 secondsremedy for it. Um and there's no real examples of people getting through it. Now we're in absence of all three, 7:547 minutes, 54 secondsduration, pathway, and outcome. And our our anxiety level really spikes because we're uh we have we're we're thrown into 8:018 minutes, 1 seconddeep uncertainty. Um, and so this is the idea. Our brain is trying to figure this stuff out. And one of the things we have to do to start moving through these 8:078 minutes, 7 secondsenvironments is to in fact look to create our own duration pathway outcome. Chapter 6: COVID 8:148 minutes, 14 secondsIt's interesting because as you're saying that, I'm thinking of the COVID epidemic right at the beginning where we don't know how long it's going to be, we don't know how many people it's going to kill, and there's no way to treat it. 8:228 minutes, 22 secondsUh, you know, our national anxiety is through the roof and then it's like, 8:258 minutes, 25 secondsokay, well, now there's a vaccine and the the, you know, not that many people are dying. Um, and you could, you know, 8:318 minutes, 31 secondsyou still couldn't see the the light at the end of the tunnel, but you could you could kind of watch the anxiety nationally attenuate as those three 8:388 minutes, 38 secondsthings became more clear to the point that eventually everybody's like, "Oh, 8:438 minutes, 43 secondsyeah, no, we're fine. Don't worry about it." Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. 8:458 minutes, 45 secondsAnd that that's actually a great example because that's a that's an example of a of a of a community, global community going through that that's that that the 8:538 minutes, 53 secondswhole thing together. Um and of course some some nations were a little bit slower on the on the on the on the realization of any one of those things 9:009 minutesum than others. But uh but you're absolutely right. We were all in absent when we went into lockdown. Um all of us were in absence of all of all three of 9:089 minutes, 8 secondsthose. So so as a as a as a planet we were thrust into this environment where we all had deep uncertainty. Yeah. It's Chapter 7: Moving horizons 9:159 minutes, 15 secondsit's really interesting. So okay. So so those are the underlying factors that that you know we're we're dealing with. 9:229 minutes, 22 secondsWe're trying to manage those three factors, right? What what when we respond to those three factors, what underlies our personal response? Like 9:299 minutes, 29 secondswhat what would make somebody very good at that versus they're not so good at it? Yeah. Uh so so this is this there in lies the secret. And and the secret in 9:389 minutes, 38 secondsfact is you create your own duration pathway outcome. And you do this through a process that I call moving horizons. 9:459 minutes, 45 secondsAnd what I mean by moving horizons is you pick something that you know you can control or foresee and you focus on 9:529 minutes, 52 secondsthat. And what that does is that automatically creates a duration pathway outcome. Now let me I'll just give an example. So so many of your audience are 9:599 minutes, 59 secondsare aware of SEAL training and BUDS basic underwater demolition seal training where where the guys go to become we all go to become Navy Seals 6 10:0610 minutes, 6 secondsmonths long 90% attrition rate. Um, I remember my Buds class. I mean, you you spend hundreds of hours running around with big heavy boats in your head. And I 10:1410 minutes, 14 secondsremember specifically a time during hell week. It was middle of the night or whatever. We're running on the beach with the boat on our head and I'm miserable. We're all miserable. And next 10:2210 minutes, 22 secondsto me is a sandb. And what I did at that moment, um, I didn't I didn't know what I was doing was I said to myself, you know what? I'm just going to focus on getting to the end of this sandburnm. 10:3110 minutes, 31 secondsAnd so in the moment of kind of uncertainty, don't know how this how long this is going to last. don't know what's what's waiting for me at the end and don't know how to get out of it. Um 10:4010 minutes, 40 secondsI created by by picking horizon I created a DPO a duration pathway outcome duration from now until the end of the 10:4610 minutes, 46 secondsburm pathway from here to end of burm and outcome end of burm. Now, as soon as I did that, I cemented certainty neurologically in my brain. And once I 10:5510 minutes, 55 secondshit that goal, once I got to the end of the burm, I in fact created a dopamine reward in my system because we get rewarded with dopamine when we 11:0311 minutes, 3 secondsaccomplish goals like that, which allowed me then to pull back out and ask the question again. And so what I recognized about SEAL training and 11:1111 minutes, 11 secondsreally just being a spec operator in general, but SEAL training specifically is it is one big exercise in really 11:2011 minutes, 20 secondsrefining your ability to create to shift horizons to move horizons and create DPOS. Um and those horizons are have to 11:2611 minutes, 26 secondsbe subjective to uh the environment and subjective to the intensity of the environment. So in other words um given 11:3411 minutes, 34 secondsuh depending on the intensity of the environment that that that horizon may be very short. You know, I remember being in the waves in the surf zone, 11:4011 minutes, 40 secondsfreezing in SEAL training, and I remember saying to myself, I'm just going to count five waves. That was my horizon. I remember being uh at certain points in SEAL training and saying to 11:4811 minutes, 48 secondsmyself, I'm just going to get to the next meal. That was my horizon. Or, you know, in the case of boats, I'll get to the end of the BM. And so, that that 11:5511 minutes, 55 secondshorizon has to shift depending on the intent in the environment. And it has to be it has to be created by the individual in a way that manages the 12:0312 minutes, 3 secondsdopamine response uh effectively. In other words, if you create a horizon that's too far, um you're going to run 12:1012 minutes, 10 secondsout of dopamine. You're likely quit before you get to the end. If you create a horizon that's too short, you're not going to get that dopamine reward. And 12:1712 minutes, 17 secondsso, so any of you, and I know you're someone who who's who's done iron mans and triathlons and things like that, and anybody who runs marathons or stuff will 12:2512 minutes, 25 secondswill know this intuitively, there are certain wickets we pick through that event through those events that we decide upon that are our horizons. And 12:3212 minutes, 32 secondsit's different for everybody. In other words, if you and I ran a triathlon together, um you may pick a specific horizon that's like, you know, if we're 12:4012 minutes, 40 secondsrunning the the the the the marathon portion, you may say, "I'm going to, you know, 10 miles is my first horizon." 12:4512 minutes, 45 secondsWell, I might be like, "Well, 10 miles is too far for me. You know, 2 miles is my horizon." So, that the horizons have to be internal. They have to be individualized and they have to be 12:5312 minutes, 53 secondsspecific and and appropriate to the intensity of the environment. But it also strikes me that those horizons are going to move based on your emotional state, physical state, and everything Chapter 8: Horizon is the finish line 13:0213 minutes, 2 secondselse. Like if if you ask me when I start the marathon, uh my horizon is the finish line. Uh at about 14 or 15 miles, 13:1013 minutes, 10 secondsmy horizon is the next lamp post. Right. 13:1313 minutes, 13 secondsI'm going to run to that lamp post and then I'm going to quit. I'm going to run to that lamp post and then I'm going to quit. What I'm saying is what you just done there, John, is you've in fact you've actually modulated your you've 13:2213 minutes, 22 secondsyou've you've modulated or refined your horizon based on the fact that you weren't getting rewarded. If you start that and your horizon is the finish 13:2913 minutes, 29 secondsline, you've just decided that you don't get rewarded until the finish line. And so what you've done in the moment as you're going through is say, "Oh, wait a 13:3713 minutes, 37 secondssecond. Finish line is too far. I'm going to start rewarding myself sooner than that." Um, and what we can do, all of us as humans, we can do this in any 13:4413 minutes, 44 secondsenvironment. Uh, we can and we can create these these small horizons or big horizons, but create this reward system that allows us to step through challenge 13:5313 minutes, 53 secondsand uncertainty. And what happens in an uncertain environment as you move through these horizons horizons you will move your position which means you will 14:0014 minutesyou will either gain optics on what's going on in other words you will you will start to build a certainty around you'll start to understand your 14:0814 minutes, 8 secondsenvironment better or you'll move through the environment and you'll be able to say okay I'm through now and I can look back and and um and figure out what what what just happened but but in 14:1614 minutes, 16 secondseither case it is a it is the way that you literally step through this stuff well and it it is I guess to some degree what would explain Why, you know, in a high attrition environment like Buds, Chapter 9: Hell Week 14:2814 minutes, 28 secondsuh, some people seem to be able to just persevere no matter what happens to them while, you know, the guy that's like, I 14:3614 minutes, 36 secondsI'm going to get to the end of Buds and that's the target and it's 6 months out when he's cold and sandy and miserable is like, it's just too far. It's too far. And and honestly, hell week, which 14:4414 minutes, 44 secondsis which is again for your listeners or most of them know, but hell week, you start on a on a Sunday night in Buds in SEAL training, you start on a Sunday night and you go until the following 14:5214 minutes, 52 secondsFriday, right? And during that entire week, you only sleep for a couple hours. 14:5514 minutes, 55 secondsIt's like two or three hours of sleep for the entire week. So, you're cold, 14:5814 minutes, 58 secondswet, and sandy for the entire week and just doing crazy stuff. And the saying when you go into hell week is that if you think about Friday on Monday, you're 15:0515 minutes, 5 secondsgoing to quit, right? And and this is that this is the the the horizon's moving explained to a tea because if you're on if on Monday I'm thinking 15:1315 minutes, 13 secondsabout Friday, that's way too far. Um on Monday, I'm thinking about maybe the next evolution or maybe getting out of the surf zone or in some cases 10 waves. 15:2215 minutes, 22 secondsUh some people can even do this and say, 15:2415 minutes, 24 secondsyou know, say, "Hey, the only thing I know and control right now is my breath, 15:2615 minutes, 26 secondsso I'm just going to focus on taking 10 breaths." That is still creating a horizon. What you're doing is you're you're engaging your frontal lobe and you're consciously starting to step 15:3515 minutes, 35 secondsthrough the environment you're in. It's interesting. So if if I'm you know obviously there's some things that are separating those two people and and and Chapter 10: Innate Attributes 15:4315 minutes, 43 secondsyou know one obviously has a better ability to to manage kind of their own dopamine and the moving horizons but it also strikes me that there are kind of things that are underlying who you are 15:5115 minutes, 51 secondsas an individual that's going to read that. You know, I'm thinking back to like, you know, your first book, the attributes, and and you 15:5915 minutes, 59 secondsknow, it strikes me that there's probably some innate attributes here in play as to who is able to manage those horizons versus not able to manage 16:0816 minutes, 8 secondshorizons. Well, you're you're absolutely right and and quite specifically the the one attribute that I think relates to 16:1516 minutes, 15 secondshorizon shifting or moving horizons directly is compartmentalization. The ability to focus on something, block out everything else, and move to completion on that. However, um our our 16:2416 minutes, 24 secondsperformance, our behavior in uncertainty, challenge, and stress, 16:2716 minutes, 27 secondswhich is really us at our most raw, by the way, because when this starts to happen, it becomes us at our most raw. 16:3216 minutes, 32 secondsAnd and us at our most raw is like personality goes out the window. It's just like who are we at our most raw? 16:3816 minutes, 38 secondsAnd so to understand how we behave at our most raw, um we need to know some things about ourselves. And and one of those things we need to know are our 16:4616 minutes, 46 secondsattributes. In other words, what attributes do we have a lot of or predominance of and what attributes might not we have a lot of? Because if I know I'm high on perseverance, for example, um but low on adaptability, 16:5716 minutes, 57 secondsthat's going to affect my performance in any environment. And so, so regardless and so I would say any in certain environment is going to be um it's going 17:0517 minutes, 5 secondsto differentiate which attributes are more appropriate in that environment. 17:0817 minutes, 8 secondsBut understanding where and how we show up in that environment, our own unique attribute picture is is one of the first keys to understanding how we're going to 17:1717 minutes, 17 secondsbehave. Interesting. So So to some degree, our identities involved then? Chapter 11: Identity 17:2217 minutes, 22 secondsOur identity is the next one. So in other words, we as human beings uh collect identities throughout our lives. 17:2717 minutes, 27 secondsWe we and and they could be small, they could be uh they could be big. Um, it's, 17:3117 minutes, 31 secondsyou know, I I went to this high school or I'm a lacrosse player or I'm a Navy Seal or, you know, I'm a husband or a father or I'm a Metallica fan. But any 17:3917 minutes, 39 secondsidentity that we create or or uh or or take on uh comes with specific and certain rules and conditions that define 17:4717 minutes, 47 secondsour behavior in that identity or for that identity. And what we have to understand is in is in deep uncertainty and challenge and stress, what's 17:5417 minutes, 54 secondshappening is we're going to prioritize and behave to we're going to behave towards those identities that we prioritize. Uh so the example would be Navy Seal, a very powerful identity. 18:0318 minutes, 3 secondsWhen I was overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan, Navy Seal was my predominant identity. So in the worst situations, my identity was how do I act? I'm going to act like a Navy Seal. 18:1218 minutes, 12 secondsUm my my next most or actually it was probably equally as powerful was is husband and father. It still is. Um and there were times and certainly with some 18:2018 minutes, 20 secondsof my teammates there were times even in that environment where Navy Seals prioritize there might be something that happens that suddenly the husband and father pri identity you know comes comes 18:2818 minutes, 28 secondsto play and so this is very important for us to understand because when we are in deep uncertainty challenge or stress we may be at a position or a point where 18:3618 minutes, 36 secondswe're acting without a lot of a lot of thought and if we're not thinking through it then we may be prioritizing some identities that aren't going to 18:4318 minutes, 43 secondshelp us in that situation. um the uh the the sports fan who beats the crap out of the opposite the opposing team sports 18:5118 minutes, 51 secondsfan. This is an example of an identity taking priority and predominance on behavior that you may not uh want to be 18:5818 minutes, 58 secondsdoing or find uh necessarily um uh pleasing. So we just have to understand what we're bringing into a situation, 19:0419 minutes, 4 secondsunderstand which identities we have and what are we prior what are we prioritizing. So as part of that identity obviously we have certain objectives right like as a father you want to be a good father you want to be Chapter 12: Objectives 19:1219 minutes, 12 secondsmaybe seal you want to be a good seal you know how how does what we're focused on individually 19:1919 minutes, 19 secondsdrive our response to uncertainty yeah those objectives we have are very important because objectives are in many 19:2719 minutes, 27 secondscases our purpose made concrete. So in other words, uh what we do is we say, 19:3319 minutes, 33 secondsokay, if I'm if I I wanted to be as a young man, I wanted to be a I was a patriot. I wanted to serve my country. I want to help people and and and uh and 19:4119 minutes, 41 secondsbe a great soldier, right? That's a really large kind of ethereal purpose. 19:4619 minutes, 46 secondsUm the objective I chose within that was become a Navy Seal. Um and so these objectives, whatever we're whatever 19:5319 minutes, 53 secondswe're whatever they are, are what we're carrying into this situation of uncertainty, challenge, and stress. The only caveat to those objectives is a to 20:0120 minutes, 1 secondunderstand what they are because we know uh we need to know that. But then b often times we have to let them go. In other words, I kind of say in the book, 20:0720 minutes, 7 secondskeep your eyes off the prize. And this speaks back to this idea of shifting and moving horizons. Um that that objective 20:1420 minutes, 14 secondsmay be too big, may be too far down the road. So while it needs to remain uh in our cognizance, we often times have to 20:2320 minutes, 23 secondslet it go in in um in uh in in um favor of these shorter term horizons that 20:3020 minutes, 30 secondswe're picking. But it certainly is going to drive our behavior or whatever that objective is. My objective of becoming a Navy Seal was driving my behavior in those moments. Chapter 13: Overwhelming 20:4020 minutes, 40 secondsYeah, that makes total sense because you know anything that is very far out and very large is going to be overwhelming. 20:4820 minutes, 48 secondsUh right, if it's I don't care whether it's you know becoming a SEAL or getting a PhD or or you know finishing your first Iron Man race, it it it's 20:5620 minutes, 56 secondsoverwhelming from the beginning. So you do have to kind of you know divide it up and pick something and go like right now I'm 21:0321 minutes, 3 secondsgoing to run to the next lamp post and that's all I'm going to do. the objectives, whatever the objectives are should be kind of specific, measurable, 21:1221 minutes, 12 secondsrealistic, attainable, um, and timely in certain ways. So, the example I give in the book is a guy I met um, who was a he he was a a ultra runner, you know, run, 21:2121 minutes, 21 secondsyou know, 50, 100 mile races. And I remember him saying, uh, I said, "How'd you get into ultra running?" He said, "Well, I used to be 400 lb." And I said, "Interesting." I said, "Tell me more." 21:2921 minutes, 29 secondsHe said, "Well, I was 400 lb and I decided I had had enough and I needed to get in shape. So, I said, "You know what? I'm going to just start running. 21:3521 minutes, 35 secondsthat's my, you know, I'm going to that's that's going to be my goal. I'm going to I'm going to run a race. Okay. And so what he did in that moment was he took his purpose or his passion or whatever 21:4421 minutes, 44 secondsthat is that the larger one and said get of getting healthy and losing weight turned it into a an objective run a race or run a marathon. Um and then he began 21:5321 minutes, 53 secondsto uh shift his horizons, right? Because then he said, "Okay, well first day I ordered I'm going to order running shoes." And when those running shoes came up, next day I'm going to put them on and walk to the front door. Okay? 22:0322 minutes, 3 secondsNext day I'm going to put them on and walk to the mailbox. next time I'm going to put them on and walk to the end of the street and slowly began to create horizons with that objective in in in uh 22:1322 minutes, 13 secondsin in mind um or at the periphery. And so eventually after 8 n months he was running his or 12 months I can't 22:2022 minutes, 20 secondsremember but he was running his first marathon um all in context of this idea of getting healthier. So so these objectives should be concrete concrete 22:2822 minutes, 28 secondsand then inside of those objectives and understandable and then inside of those objectives we're shifting horizons. That makes a lot of sense. So, if I'm a Chapter 14: Dynamic Subordination 22:3622 minutes, 36 secondsleader and I'm, you know, I'm leading a team that is in an uncertain environment, and I know that you spent a great deal of time doing this, um, what 22:4522 minutes, 45 secondsare the things like, let's kind of walk through, you know, Rich's lessons learned in research on being a leader in an uncertain environment. What are the 22:5322 minutes, 53 secondskinds of things that I need to be focused on? Yeah. So, so number one is is what model we're we're we're using. 22:5922 minutes, 59 secondsWhat's the model of teamwork and leadership? And and the model that uh that high performing teams and masters of uncertainty use is something I call dynamic subordination. Dynamic 23:0723 minutes, 7 secondssubordination implies that a team understands that challenges and issues and problems can come from any angle at any moment. And when one does, the person who's closest to that problem, 23:1723 minutes, 17 secondsthe most capable, immediately steps up and takes lead. And then everybody follows, right? And then the environment shifts and someone else steps up and takes lead and everybody follows. So, 23:2523 minutes, 25 secondsit's a dynamic swap between leader and follower relationship or I also call it alpha hopping. That alpha position just hops to wherever it needs to be. This is 23:3323 minutes, 33 secondsexactly how all high performing teams go. And I listen, I was an officer in the SEAL teams. You know, I was on hundreds of combat missions. I was in charge of pretty much everyone. Didn't 23:4123 minutes, 41 secondsmean I was always being supported. Often times I was supporting other people, whether it was my snipers, my breachers, 23:4623 minutes, 46 secondsmy assaulters. Sometimes the environment would shift and they'd support me. But what this tells us about high performing teaming is that our performance on a 23:5323 minutes, 53 secondsteam, our our position on a team has nothing to do with rank or hierarchy. It has everything to do with what we're there to contribute to the team. And we're constantly in a position where we can step up and step back. Kevin Seir, Chapter 15: Kevin Seir 24:0324 minutes, 3 secondswho's an RCMP team leader, I think you've probably read some of Kevin's work. He he talks about, you know, the person that should make the decision is 24:1024 minutes, 10 secondsthe person who has the most information or knows the most. You know, not the person with the highest rank. And and it is you know the one thing that is you 24:1824 minutes, 18 secondsknow in in 40 years of dealing with special operations unit is it it is this idea of of moving to the most knowledgeable or or most situationally 24:2724 minutes, 27 secondsaware person and I don't think we tend to see that intuitively in business right intuitively in business you have this idea and it took me I don't know 25 24:3624 minutes, 36 secondsor 30 years to overcome this idea like I'm the boss I'm in charge I make the decisions and and you know everybody follow me and and now what I realize is 24:4424 minutes, 44 secondsI've actually completely flipped my paradigm to the point that like I'm the boss, I'm in charge. Tell me what I need 24:5124 minutes, 51 secondsto do. That's right. Yeah, that's exactly right. And so and so the way we do that then again the way we create that model in other words create the 24:5924 minutes, 59 secondsframework for that model is we have to focus on the second thing which is trust. If we don't have trust, we are not in fact uh able to operate. And 25:0725 minutes, 7 secondstrust what we have to understand is more than a feeling because a feeling is just a human emotion, right? Trust is in fact a belief. A belief is a human emotion that's been rationalized or justified by that human being. Um so in other words, 25:1825 minutes, 18 secondsit tells us something very simple that we have to always remember is that we cannot make anybody trust us. All we can do is behave in a way that forms a 25:2625 minutes, 26 secondsbelief that allows an individual to form a belief of trust. So we have to focus on behaving in ways in our teams and as 25:3225 minutes, 32 secondsleaders of teams uh that inculcate this level of trust. Um and there are three factors, three elements that that I I 25:4025 minutes, 40 secondstalk about in the book. those or excuse me four elements that I talk about in the book. The the first one is is competence. Okay, that's really very simple. It's do the thing right. Okay, 25:4925 minutes, 49 secondsthe second one is consistency. Do the thing right over time. Now, interesting enough, when we're in business environments, a lot of times we focus on 25:5625 minutes, 56 secondsthose first two because those first two are somewhat visible and measurable. 26:0026 minutesThey can be and I would concede skills based in a lot of a lot of things. But the other two are just as if not more important because the next one is character. Okay, ne you know character 26:0826 minutes, 8 secondsis a big word. If I were to break it down, I'd say integrity. So you have do the thing right in competence. You have do the thing right over time and consistency. And you have do the right 26:1626 minutes, 16 secondsthing for character. And then finally you have compassion. Do the right thing because you care about me as a human being. And the fact the idea is if you 26:2426 minutes, 24 secondscan build all four of those elements of trust and kind of land in the dead center of all four of those circles, you have a very long lasting durable trust 26:3226 minutes, 32 secondsbecause if something if one of those takes a hit, you have things to fall back on. Um, but this this process involves very specific behaviors from 26:4126 minutes, 41 secondseverybody, but it has to start at the top. You know, I've always been kind of I've always not liked this whole lead from the front philosophy because we all know that the very best leaders, they're 26:5026 minutes, 50 secondsnot necessarily in front. They're they're sometimes in the back. They're inspiring. They're empowering, right? Um, and and honestly, there people say, 26:5626 minutes, 56 seconds"Don't ever ask your your guys to do something you wouldn't do." There was tons of things I would ask my guys to do what I that I couldn't do because I couldn't do them. you know, I can't shoot the way my snipers are can or or 27:0527 minutes, 5 secondsor or put breaches on a door way my breachers can. So, all this said, the one place we always have to go first as leaders is with these behaviors. We have 27:1427 minutes, 14 secondsto go further with these behaviors. We have to model the behaviors we want to see more of and then reward the behaviors we want to see more of. And if you do that, you begin to build the 27:2227 minutes, 22 secondsframework of trust which allows in this model. What I like about this as a framework is is we are very inclined to look at the first two heavily, Chapter 16: Character and Compassion 27:3327 minutes, 33 secondsespecially in hiring, right? Oh, this guy's really good. And I've I've made and I've written articles for entrepreneur about the the you know, 27:3927 minutes, 39 secondsmaking the mistake of hiring competence uh at the expense of character. Um you know, or or hiring, you know, a high 27:4727 minutes, 47 secondsperforming as one of my favorite teams refers to it. Um and it the character and compassion are the parts 27:5527 minutes, 55 secondsthat you know I think back to all the leaders that I've worked with over the years and the ones that were really amazing. Yeah, they were ridiculously competent. I mean you are talking really 28:0328 minutes, 3 secondshigh functioning individuals, very smart, very consistent. But what sets them apart and what people talk about is not, oh that guy was an amazing marine. 28:1328 minutes, 13 secondsThey say that guy really cared about his guys. He did the right thing all the time. Yeah. Well, and this is why, by 28:2128 minutes, 21 secondsthe way, John, that and this is why I started my my whole writing career, I guess, with attributes because what we're talking about those other two, 28:2828 minutes, 28 secondscharacter and compassion, are largely attribute-based. They're about qualities that we bring to the table. I will concede because the model does require 28:3628 minutes, 36 secondscompetence and consistency. It's competence and consistency are part of the trust model. You can't you can't have a a a full-blown relationship of 28:4328 minutes, 43 secondstrust with someone if they are completely incompetent at what they're doing. It's part of that. However, like you said, we have to be careful often times because in business, the easy 28:5128 minutes, 51 secondsbutton are those skills that we can see versus the attributes that we can't necessarily see. Yeah. I mean, I've got to trust that you know what you're doing, that you're going to be able to Chapter 17: Culture 29:0029 minutesdo it, that you're going to do the right thing, and that you're going to care about me 29:0729 minutes, 7 secondsand the team. So, so, okay. So, if if we've got the framework, we've got the model, talk to me a little bit about the 29:1429 minutes, 14 secondsengine or culture. Yeah, the engine is the culture. Um, and what we have to understand about culture is culture is going to be created. It's going to form 29:2329 minutes, 23 secondsin any team, organization or group naturally and automatically. Uh, if we as leaders aren't cognizant and quite 29:3029 minutes, 30 secondsdeliberate about what that culture should be. Um, then that when that culture forms, we might not look like what it looks like, right? So, so 29:3829 minutes, 38 secondsculture is going to going to happen no matter what. We as leaders have to be more deliberate in forming that culture. 29:4329 minutes, 43 secondsNow, one of the ways we can do that is to go back to idea our our ideas on identity. Since identity drives behavior and what I what I failed to say at the 29:5229 minutes, 52 secondsfront end is that the the two most powerful words in the in the English language or the human language I think are I am because whatever you put after 30:0030 minutesthose two words shapes your behavior. It drives you towards a certain behavior, 30:0430 minutes, 4 secondstowards a certain goal. And so, so it's very important that we understand what we're putting after I am. And you can do this as a team as well. you can create a 30:1330 minutes, 13 secondsculture. Um, and by by generating even a short list of I am statements, what it does is it starts to define what it 30:2130 minutes, 21 secondslooks like, what the behavior looks like to be a part of that culture. Um, I did this with the command I was in charge of um, in the SEALs. You know, we created a 30:2930 minutes, 29 secondslist of I am statements. Things like I am disciplined. Um, I am a surgical warrior. Um, I am humble. Right? These 30:3730 minutes, 37 secondsthese were all behaviors that started to speak to this is what it means. These are the rules and conditions uh that are required to be a part of this culture. 30:4730 minutes, 47 secondsUm and if you do that culturally and what we always do is we always finish that last I am statement with the the name of the command itself or the name 30:5430 minutes, 54 secondsof the team or the business because then you're solidifying it. So I am SEAL team whatever. Um it solidifies this this this idea that okay this is who I am. 31:0331 minutes, 3 secondsThese are the rules I behave by and now I know exactly what culture looks like. 31:0731 minutes, 7 secondsThat's the engine that will start to begin to propel any team in whatever direction you want it to go. I love Chapter 18: Summary 31:1431 minutes, 14 secondsthat. Okay. So, just to sum up, if I'm a leader, I'm looking to build a dynamic 31:2031 minutes, 20 secondssubordination model in my team. I'm I'm building trust through the the four Cs. 31:2731 minutes, 27 secondscompetence, character, consistency, compassion, 31:3231 minutes, 32 secondsand then I'm trying to build a culture rooted in the identity of the organization that is supporting all of 31:4031 minutes, 40 secondsthe things that we just talked 100%. And I know the only the the one other caveat I'll say is if you do that, don't as a leader try to do it by yourself. Um, get 31:4831 minutes, 48 secondsbuy in from if the culture already exists or if the team already exists, 31:5131 minutes, 51 secondsget buyin from the from different parts of the team so they can figure out, you can figure out together. When I first did it, I actually pulled in my team leaders and my troop chiefs and said, 32:0032 minutes"Hey, this is what I'm thinking about these IM statements." Um, and that actually went very well. The mistake I actually made was I should have about 6 32:0832 minutes, 8 secondsmonths down the road gone to the entire command and said, "Okay, how do we feel about this?" You know, what what how does this culture feel? What how do we want to reshape it in terms of making 32:1732 minutes, 17 secondssure that it speaks to this command as a culture? If I had done that, those I am statements would still exist in that 32:2432 minutes, 24 secondscommand. Um I I think I think they they largely went away when I went away. Um and so what we have to do is if we do this project, make sure we're not doing 32:3232 minutes, 32 secondsit in a vacuum. And even a vacuum can even be just the executives. Don't don't think that just the executives need to do this. Get some buyin from every level 32:4032 minutes, 40 secondsto understand what's actually going on so you have full visibility of the team. Chapter 19: Where to find Rich 32:4432 minutes, 44 secondsThat's fantastic. Rich, how can people find your work? Well, so uh so the books are on Amazon. Um and so you can get there get them there. Uh you can find all of what we do at the attributes.com. 32:5432 minutes, 54 secondsThat's uh that's where we have everything we we do. We we do obviously keynote speeches. We do consulting with businesses and teams and organizations both on attributes and mastersing 33:0333 minutes, 3 secondsmastering uncertainty. So I think the attributes.com is a great uh one-stop shop. And then of course I'm on Instagram and um and LinkedIn and a 33:1233 minutes, 12 secondscouple of those other platforms. I think in Instagram and LinkedIn are are probably the most predominant where I I try to put out content pretty u pretty deliberately and consistently. So 33:2033 minutes, 20 secondsbeautiful. And we'll link to all that in the show show notes. Thank you so much, Rich. I appreciate you, brother. Hey, 33:2433 minutes, 24 secondsappreciate you too, John. Thanks for having me.